I have to agree on this change being for the worse in several places. While the ability to click and un-vote is good (I like being able to fix problems; I *have* accidentally misclicked downs when I meant to vote up), the inability to delete comments is a huge issue. As is the ability for comments to be their own 'subset'. I have several times gone through and seen where a comment made was the answer to a question. A comment which was 'greened' where the question had been downvoted into obscurity. Some of the funny threads are all done in comments, with the original statement having been downvoted for whatever reason. Is there a way to take those very important comments and make them comments in their own right? Or does the person who made them have to go unrecognized for a valuable offering to the community?In addition, I am also in agreement with the need to be able to order it by when comments were made, rather than 'by value'. I always ordered this in the same way. It makes moderating very easy: older comments were made earlier, and often are the ones whose information needs to be tended to. Things I *do* like: the 'deleted' being right at the bottom. It not only makes it easy to keep away from the 'purged and deleted everywhere' (which, yes, is annoying to me), but it lets it be easily policed if something's been deleted that shouldn't have been. Just go, basically, to the bottom and check what got deleted. As mentioned above, the ability to 'undo' your votes and the larger arrows. I have misclicked, and while I wouldn't call it a major problem, the inability for me to *undo* that misclick has been. Especially now that a downrate actively gives someone a penalty. I hope that removing that 'downrate' will remove the penalty as well. I wouldn't want to see people downvoting, then changing it, just to mess with people.
I feel like I'm losing something when a high rated comment that I had posted under the old system just happened to be a reply to another comment.Is there no way anymore to detach the comment as a reply, so that it can be upvoted and downvoted like normal? I know that this could be done under the old comment system.I could just repost my comment, but then I'd lose all the upvotes that it already had.EDIT: Also, I can't see the "replies" (as opposed to comments) that I posted on my profile? I'd like to be able to curate any comment I've made and make corrections to it over time. I can't do so under the new system.
There is too much feedback to answer to everyone individually so I'll do a sort of Q&A.Q: You can't downvote repliesThis seems to be a very popular concern, and we are open to add a downvote functionality. Leave feedback about that in this thread.Q: Comments are no longer green!This is another common concern, and again something that we're open to revisit. Please vote in this poll with your preference; if more people prefer green comments we will reimplement it.Q: It's so differentIf you are not concerned about a particular new or missing feature but you dislike how different it is overall, please give it a couple of days and if you still don't like it feel free to post.The invite to leave a reply when you downvote is annoyingThis will be removed soon. It's just a temporary reminder for all users that it's nice to explain why you downvoted a comment.Why wasn't there a preview of this change?There was. Before it got locked it was a "Global Announcement" meaning it was visible in every forum.My reputation page links to blank pagesThis is a temporary bug for old entries, it will not happen anymore. It's because we chose not to take away reputation earned before the comment => reply conversion, so there are entries for comments that no longer exist because they are now replies.
Horrible. That's the only way I can describe the changes.The good:Comments ranked by vote count rather than date with deleted/purged at the end of the list.You can change your voteThe bad:EVERYTHING ELSE.LostDrewid said it best so far:I will never understand the fix-what-isn't-broken mentality. Why are replies no longer allowed to be comments in their own right? It made significant sense, and there are many thousands of examples, of replies containing extremely useful, pertinent information, but also related to the original comment in such a way that only as a reply did it make sense.And why have you taken away the green text for good comments? Finding the important information was ever so much easier under that system. You didn't have to look for it - it was right there practically glowing at you.There's no way to downrate or to mark a reply as out-of-date, as another thread has mentioned.This was a huge mistake, and the test period was *not* communicated to the userbase effectively. You can see from my reputation that I use this site a lot and I have for a long time; but because I only cared about using wowhead for what it is, rather than join the community *about* wowhead, this took me entirely by surprise. Before going on vacation for Thanksgiving, I was up around 75 consecutive visits, so it certainly was not that I wasn't around to see anything. No, you simply hid any notification about this change in your forum where only a small percentage of the user base would see it.I am extremely grateful that you took away reputation bonuses for voting - as you said, it was encouraging people to vote willy-nilly without actually reading and assessing a comment's value. I sincerely hope you've taken away reputation bonuses for successfully deleting comments - it only encouraged people to try to delete as much as possible, whether it was a good idea or not. But that is literally the only change that you've made here that is in any way a necessary change.I'm sure I'll be labeled as a curmudgeonly whinger for this, and otherwise ignored. I'm fine with that. But somebody needed to say it, because this is damnably ridiculous.You can also see by my reputation that I'm no stranger to Wowhead either, but after this change I very well may be.Let's give an example of just exactly WHY the replies as low-weight footnotes is a bad idea.Let's say that a highly rated comment shows up that gives some good, but incomplete information. Let's also say there are already a few replies to it that don't adequately reflect the complete picture. Now I come along with all the information and I want to put a fully complete, coherent, well laid out comment with all of the info in one place, easily readable without having to sift through half a dozen comments for it.I have two choices. I can either reply and try to put all the info in one concise place, but WAIT! what's this? A 600 character limit on replies? Well now I have to clip my reply to be a lot less readable or less complete, let alone the problems I'd have with no line breaks and limited formatting capability. To add insult to injury, my reply would now not show up by default since there were already a bunch of replies.So now my second choice is to create my own comment, putting all the info into one place, being able to format it nicely to make it aesthetically pleasing and readable and getting around the silly 600 character limit. But now with the top rated comments showing at the top of the page my comment might be completely dwarfed by the old, incomplete yet highly rated comment. Not to mention this will lead to lots of duplicate information which will in turn lead to a cluttered comments section once again.No, sir. The old system with replies-as-comments was much better. Instead of what LostDrewid termed the "fix-what-isn't-broken" method, why not just tweak the original system? Why is a full overhaul the necessary route?
We're launching the system soon today, so the test website was shut down and I will close this thread (but your feedback is always welcome; you can open new threads for feature suggestions and improvements regarding the comment revamp).We feel that the new feature is "good enough" as it is now, and we prefer to implement the bigger improvements (such as a notification system, etc) over time instead of doing one single huge change. This will allow us do have less bugs and to better evaluate user feedback as it comes up over time.That was quick! I think - dare I say? - Too soon!There are a number of very good, valid comments already in this thread, so I'm not going to repeat them. My biggest gripe now that I've been around the site a bit more is the same as you responded to yesterday: Many conversations did not carry over to the new system. Koper already addressed that this was a shortcoming, but I'm only now seeing how pervasive this is; the comments are significantly messier, in general, especially the larger comment sections (I warn you against viewing the Faction Leader comments!).Can't stand it either. It's also broken the links in the reputation page for me.Your comment was upvoted - Nothing by me on that page.The broken links are a major annoyance. Which of my comments was upvoted? Downvoted? When a comment is downvoted, I like to visit the comment to determine if it needs revision.Though not as polite as I might have been to our mighty Wowhead overlords, I have to agree with most of pewpewx's points (with the exception of "can you at least inform us ahead of time;" there was definitely advance notice).
Were recent comments lost in the conversion? I all of a sudden have no comments listed in my profile more recent than July 29.
FIX: You should now no longer see broken links in your reputation history.
Were recent comments lost in the conversion? I all of a sudden have no comments listed in my profile more recent than July 29.A lot of those comments may have been converted to "replies", so they may not be listed on your profile. I hope this is something they fix soon, as well as being able to detach comments again.
Being a developer myself, I know how incredibly frustrating it is when your hard work gets lambasted by the user base.However, I find myself having to agree with our more verbose commenters that everybody else are quoting - essentially making replies useless as far as readability goes is a significant turn for the worse.Having the reply, the username and the date on one line with no distinction between the two (such as a quote block or some other visual element) was - IMO - a horrible UI decision. No, I don't care what UIs popular websites frequented by people who still use mailing lists to exchange information uses. I liked WoWHead when it looked modern.In addition, I'd like to make an assumption: I'm assuming that downvotes counteract upvotes as far as reputation is concerned.If this assumption is incorrect, please disregard the rest of this post.Allow me to present a scenario to you:Let's say in Patch 5.0.0 a quest works in a specific way. Someone posts a helpful guide for it, and it gets tons of upvotes.Now let's say in Patch 5.3.0 Blizzard changes the quest, and thus the guide becomes useless. What happened previously was, someone posted a reply with an updated guide, and readers would upvote the new reply until both of them were pretty prominent.What will happen now is, the person who posted the OP will receive a lot of downvotes until his guide gets downvoted into the red zone, and then the new guide will be on top.Great, the information for the readers is now quicker to find, right? Yeah, sure, but the person who posted the original guide get dozens of downvotes for no reason. Is it his or her fault that Blizzard changed the mechanics of a quest? Does that person deserve negative rep?My answer to both of those questions is: No.It would seem that whoever green-lighted this change does not agree with me, which I find saddening.
Before detailed reply to each change and reasoning - when I came home today and by jumping on my last rep change in comments I noticed that... everything awkardly changed. The good minimalistic and compact comments has turned into huge forum/FB-like steamships, moreover, those steamships had huge meaningless arrows and confusing white numbers to left, spam-like replies to them. Now it's only missing ability to put insane-size avatar faces to left, all the info about user who posted comment, and ofcoarse - a "poem of huge siganture texts".All the changes that been added within one night has made me really annoyed and angry. A lot of stuff I loved in Wowhead(and becose of which I choosen this site) has gone away...Well, let's talk about those things individually:The default sorting order is by date which means that the first comment posted will always be at the top, even if it's not the best one.There was nothing bad about it, I myself, and sure others too, just skipped comments with low rating, reading the high-rated comments <and associated low-rated comments, which we could have been able to see in logical flow>You can reply to a comment with another full blown-out comment, with the reply always shown below the parent comment. This functionality has been abused by replying to the first comment on the page with an unrelated comment in order to have the "second place" slot.If they unrealted - they get downrated, purged and reported. Nothing much wrong about that.The upvote/downvote controls are very small, not immediately visible to new users and somewhat awkward to use. The comment rating number has the same problem.Small != bad. Now we have huge arrows that take a lot of space and plainly annoying by that. Moreover, those arrows demand to have their own space, when old +/- had been an addition to information line, it's as if you had those 3 buttons of your window at top-right corner turn into huge buttons at side. (the hide/shorten/close window ones) Aswell - they are colored by what you voted on them, there is no longer color of how good comment itself.If you so-want to keep them, just make a settings option to have old small icons.Comments with negative rating are no longer automatically purged. They will appear at the bottom of course, but they will still be there to be improved or deleted by the OP.The whole ability of being able to see deleted comments is annoying for me, I want see them "hidden completely" via option in settings, even if they are in bottom of list.When you cast a vote on a comment you will no longer receive +1 reputation. This was decided because many users were abusing the voting feature mindlessly voting (and quite often DOWNvoting) comments in order to gain reputation, regardless of the merits of the comment itself.That's a plus.When you downvote a comment you are invited to leave a reply explaining why.(TL;DR below)Let's take a situation: you go to shop, you want to buy milk, bread, tea, rice and some candies. You take bread - an advertisement guy appears near you trying to make you buy some crap he gives to you. Bit annoying. You shoo him away. Then you go to buy milk, again, advertisement guy appears and trys to sell you other crap, you get angry and shoo him away again. Next comes tea - same situation with advertisement guy. Now candies - you are not sure which to buy, you take one to look and... gues what? Advertisement guy appears! And each time you take candy to look at it - he appears again. After that you would avoid buying candies at all, even would reduce your ration to buy as less things as you could. In worst case - you will go to other shop, where there are no adv guys.>Please. Not. Every. Damn. Time.New comments now start with a rating of 0 rather than 1. This change is retroactive (all existing comments lost 1 rating).Finally there thing as "neutral comment" ;)Comments with high rating are no longer green.（╯°□°）╯︵┻━┻......Now it's just a wall of white text... the good comments are no longer eye-catching.Moderators can now make a comment "STICKY" which makes it appear on top and colors it green.Let people themselves choose what they want to see by upvoting and making things green. But as of "sticky" part - you could just make same as "next blue post" button on Blizz forums, so when we visit a page - we can jump between sticki'ed comments with a click of button.You are now always able to see your own deleted comments, regardless of reputation.Yet I still can't see my comments that are older than 250... unless I really fail for several years to find "show all my comments" button.The "Default comment sort" option has been removed from the user's settings page; you can change it to "Date" on a page per page basis, but you can no longer change it for all pages.（╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)What. The. Reason?I loved the date-sort. It gives me full information of who-when posted the comment: of who tried to cheat and copied the info that already been said, somehow managing to get high-rate; of which comment was posted after which, so I could see the flow of people giving the arguments or posting ongoing information. Sorting them by rating just messed everything. Why would comment that includes only "No. Never." text could have over 20 rating? It makes no sense when you take only it. But if you take is as date/reply related - you will see that it's answer to someone's comment which makes those "No"-words funny in this particular situation.The "Hide deleted comments" option has been removed as well. Since now deleted comments are always at the bottom they should no longer be in the way.Bring it back, please, I don't ever wanna see those comments when I browsing for information.
The invite to leave a reply when you downvote is annoyingThis will be removed soon. It's just a temporary reminder for all users that it's nice to explain why you downvoted a comment.No, please don't remove this. We don't want people downvoting with impunity. There should be something annoying about downvoting a comment.Cheers.
BTW: I went to a couple of items to see how the new comments looked.The default sorting is horrible.What, that 23 rated 2.0.1 comment is really the best one about this item?So, I sorted by date and got it back the way it was.REQUEST: Can we have a sort by date in reverse implemented, such that the most recent comment is displayed first?Cheers.
Wow a is a fluid game. Things are constantly changing, and thus, this comment system is flawed at it's basic level. A comment that gets upvoted to the top might tomorrow become irrelevant, or worse, completely terrible advice. The old system provided a nice workaround for this by putting comments in chronological order. It wasn't ideal sure, but it was better than this.I'll also echo other peoples' concerns, and add this: the only improvement here is that you can see if you've previously up or downvoted a comment.edit: oh, and a minor comment, the line that says when a comment was last edited kind of makes everything look a bit messy to me, it could go at the top (after the original date and patch of the comment).
I think the new change is sort of ugly, but maybe I'll get used to it. I bet the hardest part of the change will be replies that were incorrectly left as comments (happens often) now being sorted differently from their original order. I also miss seeing our icons when we post. :( Lastly, I thought sorting by date was the most relevant way to sort comments. I'll give it a shot though and see how it goes.
I mentioned this in the preview thread, and I mentioned it earlier before there was a thread about this new commenting system, and I'll mention it again, since there was no reply as to whether such a thing will be considered...I would like to have the ability to permanently delete my own comments.As I said before, it could be restricted by reputation, and it could also be restricted so that you can't delete comments which have more than X rating.The reason why I'm asking for this, is simple. I am one of those people who mistakenly used delete - instead of edit - on my own comments as I thought they'd be gone completely. Now they're there, in the comment section, right next to a comment that I made afterwards, and I can't remove the older version. I've done this on quite a few comments where I changed very little, so now it looks like I've posted two similar comments.I also saw a few of these mistakes made by other people. On one item there were like 10 deleted (by the poster) comments, and then the 11th was the last, correct version.I personally don't see why posters don't have the ability and right to remove their own postings. I hate forums which don't allow this, and here in the comments it feels even worse, in my opinion.Are there any plans for allowing commenters to permanently delete their own comments, or should I just start going through the several dozen or so items where I made this mistake, reporting them all to a moderator, hoping there'll be no backlash from making such a stupid mistake in the first place?Also, I would like to point out that while not a significant issue, when someone sees two or more similar comments posted by the same person, it can have a negative effect on them, in that while the comment (which is there, not the deleted one) deserves an upvote, rather than upvote, or rather than not do anything, someone might to downvote the actual comment because of the clutter.Anyways... Hopefully whoever's in charge could look at this suggestion / issue and get back to me and everyone else who's wondering about this ability.
Well, at the very least, I'm glad there's steps being taken to resolve the issue where people will downrate every single comment in a page, on every page, just to gain reputation.However, it will probably still be done for the achievements that involve rating X number of comments (the Critic series, I think?). So aside from just straight removing those, it will probably still happen.As someone who doesn't really use the Wowhead forums, gotta say I didn't see it coming! Looks like some others have also mentioned that. I was wondering why I got awarded with privileges I already had. I was going to pass it off as a glitch until I meandered over to News.Glancing over my own comments, looks like this hasn't been too harmful on my end. In fact, now my Wrath of Tarecgosa comment is the tippy top! (Sticky pls lolol)I'd require a lot more exposure to the new system before I really have any valid opinions of it, though. Well, maybe one: The replies don't make themselves out to be very obvious; sometimes I don't notice that they are there. I probably just need to get used to moving my eyes to different places than usual.This change is HUGE. I mean, after using wowhead for over 1 year I am already used to the old features. And then suddenly a big change comes and everything is different.Try 4 years. ;) That's my tenure, anyway.
You can now see a list of your replies on your user page: http://www.wowhead.com/user=Koper#repliesReplies can also be linked to directly now.
Removing the patch number from replies was a really bad idea.
You can now always delete instantly your own comments. If the comments are deleted by the OP, rather than by the vote process, the comment will be visible only to the OP and moderators -- high reputation users will not be able to see it.You can now also instantly undelete your own comments if you deleted them yourself. If deleted by a moderator, or by the vote process, you can still vote to undelete.
When you cast a vote on a comment you will no longer receive +1 reputation. This was decided because many users were abusing the voting feature mindlessly voting (and quite often DOWNvoting) comments in order to gain reputation, regardless of the merits of the comment itself.Good change.