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Disc Priest: "Now I need spirit?"
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Post by
321419
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Post by
299743
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Post by
Elrael
With the changes to Rapture you need around the same spirit as holy priest, a bit less because various factors(Rapture, Replenishment), but still.
Holy priest mostly go for spi = int. I guess as Disc priest you can have around 100 spirit less then int.
Meaning at 800 int you want 700 spirit.
And don't worry about gimping your int/spellpower/crit to much. Most items with spirit either got int/spellpower/crit of int/spellpower/haste
Edit: Slow me :<
Spirit has become on par with mp5 for disc, not better. If you're running out of mana too soon now, it just means you stacked the stat you considered your main one before and ignored others like mp5. You didn't feel gimped before because rapture was OP and covered it up, but now you'll just have to balance your stats more.
This is how a disc priests prio on stats should go IMO for someone that's Ulduar-ready:
spellpower > int/crit > mp5/spi at first
Any int that takes you above a 22k mana pool means you get less effect per int
Any crit above 30% self-buffed is useless because Divine Aegis only stacks up to 10k, and too much crits make you overheal more.
Any mp5 below 300 is too low
If you have too much int/crit, start stacking haste, once you reach 22k mana, 300mp5 and 30% crit, this is how your stat prio should go: spellpower > haste > mp5/spirit/int > crit
But past 10% haste most of the haste gets wasted anyways. At 8% I always got 1.0 flash heals when I need them.
Post by
299743
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Post by
karlusdavius
But past 10% haste most of the haste gets wasted anyways. At 8% I always got 1.0 flash heals when I need them.
It's not wasted. The point of stacking haste isn't just to get faster casts, it's also to lower the GCD and reduce overhealing. Penance, our highest hps heal is also affected by haste.
Penance, no longer gives mana back. So the quicker you spam those hasted spells, the faster you will go OOM.
Spirit is not on a par with MP5. Spirit is now on a par with intellect.
SpellPower
Intellect/Spirit
Crit
haste
and that mp ^&*!e
Just to put something straight. We had low overheal because it was imperative that we try and get maximum gains back from the old 3.0 Rapture. Now that it has been changed, along with Divine Aegis, We no longer *have* to heal efficiently, as we no longer have any benefits from doing so. However, it is good practice to try and keep your overhealing down.
Post by
Elrael
But past 10% haste most of the haste gets wasted anyways. At 8% I always got 1.0 flash heals when I need them.
It's not wasted. The point of stacking haste isn't just to get faster casts, it's also to lower the GCD and reduce overhealing. Penance, our highest hps heal is also affected by haste. The higher your gear level, the more important haste becomes.
New Casting Time = (Previous casting time)/(1.%%) (Where %% is the percentage haste)
With Enlightenment (5%) ->1.42 seconds flash heal
With Wrath of Air (5%) -> 1.36 seconds flash heal
With Imp Moonkin aura (3%) -> 1.32 seconds flash heal
With Borrowed Time (25%) ->1.05 seconds flash heal
((1.05 / 1.00) - 1) * 32.79 * 100 = 5.67% haste to cap flash heal (and the gcd) at 1.0
Without Borrowed Time the cap lies around 30%, but then you made Borrowed Time completely wasted.
The more haste you get the less value Borrowed Time gives. It's not like you can spec out of it to get better talents. =/
Edit: there is a minor error in the math. I guess two of the haste buffs stack instead multiply, but no could tell me which one
Post by
299743
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Post by
299743
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Post by
karlusdavius
Wrong -.- It was proven ages ago that at higher gear levels, haste had no effect on overhealing or mana-efficiency. There's an entire table on that at elitist jerks- before 3.1 you got mana back from healing anyway to compensate. But after 3.1, the haste actually allows you to spend some time out of 5SR.
And spirit is NOT on par with int for a disc priest. Int still > spirit. Thinking that spirit is on par with int for disc is ridiculous.
Your stat prio works on low gear levels yes, but once you get better gear, you'll notice that it doesn't work anymore.
Wrong. Point in stacking haste to get out of the 5SR if you have pathetically low spirit levels? non.
Intellect and Spirit are your regen stats and thus, should be stacked to the same amounts (if not favoring intellect more)
Thinking this way is not ridiculous, if this forum has taught me anything, its to keep an open mind and not think that what i say it law.
Post by
299743
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Post by
Paolo
Thinking this way is not ridiculous, if this forum has taught me anything, its to keep an open mind and not think that what i say it law.
WTS this idea to a few other forum participants. Will give it away for free :)
You're assuming 100% BT uptime, that's not possible unless you throw a shield on a random person before every spell. If you want to argue like that, you might as well throw Power Infusion into the picture and say we don't need haste at all.
I've only spent a couple of hours raid healing in Ulduar, so grains of salt are required here. (See above.) But the
big
changes
to PWS plus a ton more raidwide damage in Ulduar means that BT may very well have much higher uptime than ever. Hard to imagine it being 100%, but the point stands.
And your PI comment was just silly, as you no doubt are aware :) Not useful when actually trying to discuss.
Post by
Aldones
Even if you don't need BT for FH b/c you have that much haste, it will still have an affect on Penance.
Post by
299743
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Post by
karlusdavius
Wrong. Point in stacking haste to get out of the 5SR if you have pathetically low spirit levels? non.
Intellect and Spirit are your regen stats and thus, should be stacked to the same amounts (if not favoring intellect more)
Thinking this way is not ridiculous, if this forum has taught me anything, its to keep an open mind and not think that what i say it law.
How many times have a said "high gear level"? At that point, your spirit will not be "pathetically low".
Yes, int and spirit are our regen stats, but Int > spirit. Int scales better with talents, offer crit/mana pool/regen/more mana from shadow fiend, while spirit doesn't scale as well and only offers regen.
And I didn't say the point of stacking haste was to get out of 5SR, it's a perk. The main point of it is to get more healing output. At higher gear levels, if you continue with sp>int>crit>haste, then all you're doing is increasing your overheal, not efficiency. Stacking haste instead of int and crit reduces overhealing. Please read what I'm writing. I'm talking about having full t7.5 Best in slots and possibly some Ulduar pieces already, not dungeon blues. If you're not even at a point where you can test it out yourself, then I don't know what to say to convince you, other than the fact that I'm there and that's how it works -.- Sounds stuck up, but it's true.
And if you stack regen stats as a prio before everything else, you'll end up like those TBC priests who gemed/enchanted everything with spirit, and could come out of the most healing-intensive fights with a full mana bar, but had terrible healing output. Spellpower remains our main stat no matter what imo.
You will loose no throughput from having spirit and int at the same levels. non what so ever.
Yes, int and spirit are our regen stats, but Int > spirit. Int scales better with talents, offer crit/mana pool/regen/more mana from shadow fiend, while spirit doesn't scale as well and only offers regen.
If you have no mana, your can't have throughput. So maybe now you should read what im saying.
Stacking Int & Spirit to the same values will never hinder your throughput, but it will increase your longevity. Almost all cloth Epics in Ulduar will have spirit. You said it yourself, after getting 22k mana there is no point stacking more int. Therefor i would sacrifice int for spirit. heck if i gain 35 - 40 spirit for a 5 SP loss then i would do it. because i no that 5 spell power won't make up much loss in throughput, and i don't need more than 22k mana.
haste isn't really an arguing point. It is so easy to gain an 8 - 10% haste cap with Enlightenment that it would only take 2 - 3 haste pieces of gear (of which you can find crit on some pieces too). however, Due to Soul Warding, You can tap into the BT buff anytime we need in order to gain haste.
The main point of it is to get more healing output. At higher gear levels, if you continue with sp>int>crit>haste, then all you're doing is increasing your overheal, not efficiency.
overheal does not = less efficiency anymore. We can afford to overheal.
If you're not even at a point where you can test it out yourself, then I don't know what to say to convince you, other than the fact that I'm there and that's how it works -.- Sounds stuck up, but it's true.
then how about you pop up some math in order to prove how it "Works" mr "i raid ulduar so im in "the know"". I couldn't give to ticks if your raiding ulduar, good for you. so are many, many other people. As for this argument, yes you sound stuck up. So stuck up that your whole hand has just disappeared up your arsehole. Your opinions are just that. opinions. they hold no weight when other people have a counter argument, as does mine.
i /quit
GG
Post by
Elrael
You're assuming 100% BT uptime, that's not possible unless you throw a shield on a random person before every spell. If you want to argue like that, you might as well throw Power Infusion into the picture and say we don't need haste at all.
I've only spent a couple of hours raid healing in Ulduar, so grains of salt are required here. (See above.) But the
big
changes
to PWS plus a ton more raidwide damage in Ulduar means that BT may very well have much higher uptime than ever. Hard to imagine it being 100%, but the point stands.
And your PI comment was just silly, as you no doubt are aware :) Not useful when actually trying to discuss.
I didn't mean a 100% uptime, I just meant after a certain amount of haste you start give your BT less value.
I wonder if "shield random person -> penance -> flash heal" is faster then "penance -> flash heal."
And most AoE in Ulduar (from the first 4 bosses after Leviathan) seems to be more damage then a shield then prevent every 15 seconds.
Also, as far as my math go with all the raid buffs int is more regen then spi for a Disc Priest.
That given the OP is doing Heroics, not end game raids.
That means he
is building up
his spirit amounts, which are needed to get the regen naxx and further requires.
So @ the OP, you want to take spirit for mana regen and should value it about the same as int. While keeping spellpower and crit at decent levels
And later when in naxx/ulduar you can start worry about haste and when regen get's wasted.
Post by
Paolo
There's also the fact that we're MT healers...Then why has PWS had its CD removed? We're limited by Weakened Soul far more than the 4sec CD on PWS if all we're doing is shielding a single tank. Why does Renewed Hope affect the entire raid? Bliz obviously wants us to be (at least moderately) more versatile. I don't mean to say we're
not
fundamentally MT healers, not at all. But things have changed in 3.1, and I for one am no longer so sure of how things will play out. Clinging to a 3.0 playstyle will only hinder you. This is the time to be experimenting and finding out, especially if you're geared enough to have the luxury of experimentation.
This isn't meant to be a "disc priests are now raid healers" hijaak, so if you want to continue that conversation let's start another thread. Just trying to keep minds a bit more open & flexible.
Things. Have. Changed. No one should be so sure at this point. All this hot air blowing around by people who think they know so much...it's getting kind of stuffy in here guys.
Post by
56987
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Post by
299743
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
299743
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Post by
karlusdavius
-Wall of text Crit's you for 50,000
-You die!
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