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PTR
10.2.5
PTR
10.2.6
Frost PVP build
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Post by
251372
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Post by
251372
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Post by
Nocraven
I have a frost spec DeathKnight and i like it it has some good damage output and slows down the enemies attack speed and increases yours
Post by
251828
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Post by
Zerul
If you're really serious about Arena, I'd say it's better to put your extra talents on Unholy instead of Blood. You'll miss out on your Rune Tap, but you gain some other invaluable PVP talents, such as:
Epidemic: 6s extra on your plagues will truly help with rotations and when you're being kited/waiting for rune cooldowns
Unholy Command: 10 seconds less on your Death Grip. No further explanation needed.
Shadow of Death: THE reason to go mini-spec Unholy. Although you can be easily kited as a ghoul in 1v1s, this helps out a ton for Arenas as it lengthens the fight and you gain a stun to help out your allies.
Also, please do not neglect Hungering Cold if you're serious at all about Frost PVP. It's one of the prime tools that makes Frost more appealing than Unholy. Whereas in Unholy you rely on your pet for a 3s stun with a 20s cooldown, with Frost you can just literally freeze MULTIPLE targets around you for 60 RP on a 1 min cooldown (which is VERY short).
Frost not only has better burst than Unholy but it also gives you greater control with Chilblains, no cost on Frost Fever, and Hungering Cold. Unholy, on the other hand, offers a mini-Pain Suppression/Inner Fire hybrid (Bone Shield, which combined with Icebound Fortitude offers 90% damage mitigation for 4 or 5 hits), a 100% anti-magic shield (think Cloak of Shadows, except only preventative), anti-magic zone, and, well, a Ghoul that stuns.
Regardless of resilience, Frost's superior burst and damage output should be quite noticeable. Many people compare a Death Knight's damage to that of Retribution Paladins, who can still pummel players quite quickly even with full PVP gear on.
Only time will tell whether Frost or Unholy reigns supreme.
Here's my build for 80:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jZGxxzI0dMGkAostfMGh0bo
Unless you plan to roll with other melee in your arena team (Rogues and Enh. Shamans especially), Icy Talons is not worth getting over Toughness. As you can see in my build, I go a little bit of Unholy to grab every talent in there that I can get that would truly help with PVP utility, such as lengthening diseases, resurrection as a ghoul, stun resistance, etc. If you're not rolling with another healer, Death Strike and Lichborne -> Death Coiling self (x2 with Minor Glyph) is especially important, and Tier 1 in Unholy helps both skills tremendously for being such easily obtainable talents. Maybe not as great as Rune Tap, but the other talents you get more than make up for it.
Edit: Don't forget about Death Pact + Ghoul as well. While sacrificing your Ghoul can sometimes be harmful, doing so as a Frost DK is never a bad choice if you desperately need the healing. Just pop a Ghoul out with some Corpse Dust (which costs 50s rather than 50 RP) and 40 RP Death Pact for some quick healing! An Unholy DK may have to think twice before sacrificing his own ghoul so quickly, and may consider sacrificing his Gargoyle instead, which costs even more RP. So in a way, since Frost DKs aren't so focused on their pet, they can just sacrifice them for more healing.
Post by
Caesura
If you're really serious about Arena, I'd say it's better to put your extra talents on Unholy instead of Blood. You'll miss out on your Rune Tap, but you gain some other invaluable PVP talents, such as:
Epidemic: 6s extra on your plagues will truly help with rotations and when you're being kited/waiting for rune cooldowns
Unholy Command: 10 seconds less on your Death Grip. No further explanation needed.
Shadow of Death: THE reason to go mini-spec Unholy. Although you can be easily kited as a ghoul in 1v1s, this helps out a ton for Arenas as it lengthens the fight and you gain a stun to help out your allies.
Also, please do not neglect Hungering Cold if you're serious at all about Frost PVP. It's one of the prime tools that makes Frost more appealing than Unholy. Whereas in Unholy you rely on your pet for a 3s stun with a 20s cooldown, with Frost you can just literally freeze MULTIPLE targets around you for 60 RP on a 1 min cooldown (which is VERY short).
Frost not only has better burst than Unholy but it also gives you greater control with Chilblains, no cost on Frost Fever, and Hungering Cold. Unholy, on the other hand, offers a mini-Pain Suppression/Inner Fire hybrid (Bone Shield, which combined with Icebound Fortitude offers 90% damage mitigation for 4 or 5 hits), a 100% anti-magic shield (think Cloak of Shadows, except only preventative), anti-magic zone, and, well, a Ghoul that stuns.
Regardless of resilience, Frost's superior burst and damage output should be quite noticeable. Many people compare a Death Knight's damage to that of Retribution Paladins, who can still pummel players quite quickly even with full PVP gear on.
Only time will tell whether Frost or Unholy reigns supreme.
Here's my build for 80:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jZGxxzI0dMGkAostfMGh0bo
Unless you plan to roll with other melee in your arena team (Rogues and Enh. Shamans especially), Icy Talons is not worth getting over Toughness. As you can see in my build, I go a little bit of Unholy to grab every talent in there that I can get that would truly help with PVP utility, such as lengthening diseases, resurrection as a ghoul, stun resistance, etc. If you're not rolling with another healer, Death Strike and Lichborne -> Death Coiling self (x2 with Minor Glyph) is especially important, and Tier 1 in Unholy helps both skills tremendously for being such easily obtainable talents. Maybe not as great as Rune Tap, but the other talents you get more than make up for it.
Edit: Don't forget about Death Pact + Ghoul as well. While sacrificing your Ghoul can sometimes be harmful, doing so as a Frost DK is never a bad choice if you desperately need the healing. Just pop a Ghoul out with some Corpse Dust (which costs 50s rather than 50 RP) and 40 RP Death Pact for some quick healing! An Unholy DK may have to think twice before sacrificing his own ghoul so quickly, and may consider sacrificing his Gargoyle instead, which costs even more RP. So in a way, since Frost DKs aren't so focused on their pet, they can just sacrifice them for more healing.
You're on the right track but ...
-Morbidity is a waste with no sudden doom
-sub blood is actually better for survivability than sub unholy (rune tap and blade barrier)
-sub blood is actually better for dps than sub unholy (bladed armor, two hand spec, subversion)
-Endless winter/Chillblains isn't worth 5 points (30% snare is meh, RP is quickly generated anyway and CoI is strictly NOT an opener ... unless you are bad)
-Tundra Stalker / Hungering Cold are good - but I prefer a splash of unholy in my frost/blood spec (namely viscious strikes + virulence)
-wtfnokillingmachine
-...seriouslywtfnokillingmachine
-rp mastery is largely superfluous
Post by
251828
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Post by
Caesura
Almost; Rune Tap w/o the 3 point improve is worthless and there are a few more minor complaints.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jcfMqcZGxxzGxdMhoVosZbG
is what i would consider a core frost pvp build with floater points in Runic Power Mastery (2) and to a lesser degree Dark Conviction (1).
Post by
157874
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Post by
252784
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Post by
Zerul
After playing for a bit more, here are some points I'd like to make:
Hungering Cold is bad in unorganized PVP, simply because people will likely break all your CC. So Rune Tap is a definite winner in battlegrounds, non-1v1 world PVP, and likely in duels as well (cause 30s cooldown 20% heal is better than freeze -> bandage). However, I still think Hungering Cold may be better in Arena IF you have a healer as a partner.
Post by
252784
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Post by
Caesura
I agree with Zerul on this one.
1) Morbidity is useful for Death Coil healing yourself in those tight situations (or death coil healing a friend who uses Lichborne).
2) 5% Dodge + healing yourself with Death Coil is fairly equiv to sub blood.
3) Sub blood might have better DPS, but sub Unholy has 6 seconds longer on diseases, 10 seconds off Death Grip AND 3% to spell hit and less chance to get dispelled. The 3% to spell hit alone is worth it to bring your necessary PVP +hit down to equal how much you need for Melee.. around 155.. not too mention utility in PVP is much more useful than a few percent Crit or 200 AP..
4) Chillblains 30% movement speed redux with 6second longer Frost fever means that you'll have a permenant 30% snare on your opponents - multiple opponenets. This is a ton especially if you want to kite someone with Frost Fever and Chains of Ice or even get a few seconds to breathe in Arena.
5) Hundering Cold is the best 51 point that DKs have - instant freeze Everyone around you once a minute.. and put frost fever on them (ticking for ~200).. throw in a Death Chill Howling Blast and crit everyone for double dmg OR play with a frost mage for tons of increased Dmg from him.
6) Killing machine is terrible. 5 Talent points.. so that.. (assuming 33% crit) 1/3 auto swings have a 50% chance to make your next ability crit... so.. 1 out of 6 auto swings (20 seconds ish) you'll get a crit... mind you, you have high crit on howling blast already and you have Death Chills on a 2 min timer.
7) seriously it sucks.
8) I agree RP mastery isn't good.
also
9) On a Pale Horse - 20% reduced fear time/20% reduced stun time.. amazing. Not too mention the riding speed increase.
10) Resurrect as a ghoul... Savior of an arena match if it is close to done - throw a stun, finish it off.. or just more dmg.. explode yourself.. who knows but for ONE talent point it adds Tons of versatility.
Here is my potential build. Two points in Blade Barrier can be moved Anywhere to Any tree wherever you please... I'm not even sure where I want them yet.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0bZGgxzhMd0GoAostcgG00bo
You are mostly wrong. But I'm happy to let you remain so.
Post by
251828
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Caesura
Nice build, I just had a couple questions. From my math, I'm still not convinced that the 3 points in bladed armor are worth it at this point. with 10k armor thats an AP increase of about 160. While nothing to sneeze at, bringing up the parry might be worth it for more rune strikes.
Also, I was wondering, the improved Rune Tap would return 20% of max health, correct?
Comparing Bladed Armor to Blade Barrier is somewhat of a toss-up, yes.
Rune tap, when improved, returns 20% of max health every 30 seconds
Post by
Caesura
Caesura,
I know in a previous post you said morbidity is not good w/o sudden doom. Yet wouldn't it be better in your frost pvp build above then 3% dodge for the ability to use a lichborne \ deathcoil heal increased by 15% if needed? I like playing in the frost tree myself and will eventually pvp at 80 so this is more general questions than an argument. I do like the ideas in your build listed.
Cheers!
a 15% increase on a 500 pnt heal (600 glyphed) twice every 3 minutes (lichborne cooldown) represents about 0.7%(0.9% glyphed) of my max health lost per use of Lichborne assuming exactly the same playstyle. Pretty awful compared to 3% static dodge.
That being said the above is irrelevant because using your RP to heal while liched is an egregiously poor way to play your DK. So long as you remain frost your runic power pool should be used exclusively to rune strike, frost strike and horn of winter (or fort, as necessary). If you need a heal then you have rune consuming abilities that will do that.
Post by
Zerul
I do admit that using Death Coil to heal is very expensive, although it may
sometimes
be a viable option. Doesn't beat Rune Tap, obviously.
All in all, I'd consider this argument to be similar to going deep-Disc vs 28/33 for Priest PVP back in Season 1. One offers a short-cooldown ability to keep one self alive longer, while the other has a more passive bonus (Blessed Resilience before Focused Will was invented) and an improved death form (which was awesome in Season 1, back when Pain Suppression was still dispellable and self-only).
I will likely try out both specs once I hit 80 and experiment in the arena.
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105269
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252005
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253750
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