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Loot rules changed?
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Post by
jure12
I haven't been playing for a while and came back to wow, and need this clarified, just to be 100% sure (atm, I'm 99% sure).
I'm in an instance as fury warrior, dual wielding
Crescent of Ichor
Boss goes down, I press need and get
Siege-Captain's Scimitar
Rogue starts complaining that warriors don't need agility but strength, and I keep repeating that it is higher damage than what I had. He calls me a moron for needing weapon with agility, I keep pointing out DPS on a weapon, until I get sick and use ignore list.
Probably another silly whine, but I still need to check if I was right to need on that, maybe something changed in the game or whatever...
Opinions please?
Thanks in advance,
best regards,
jure12
Post by
Jeremybell
Sadly to say, the rogue was right. Strength gives way more dps than agility, no matter how many dps is on the weapon. Therefore the agility weapons are really the ones you should be looking for.
Post by
Nulgar
Well it's true that this is an upgrade for you, even if your 435 weapons had Strength, but I'm surprised the game let you roll need on an Agi weapon.
So, there are no "rules" against this.
However, it would be at least polite to give the sword to the rogue if it's an upgrade for him as well, as he profits from the weapon more. You will probably replace it with another weapon which has Strength soon enough, but he may not consider Strength weapons an option.
Even better, before choosing Need, inspect rogues (and monks) whether they would like the weapon, too. If that's the case, don't roll Need, or ask if they're ok with you rolling. However, as this is close to the level cap, people may not be that willing to let one of the last pre-raid weapons slip through their fingers, and they'd be "right" about it.
After all, these weapons are primarily intended for them, even if they are good for you, too.
Just a hint: once you're level 90, complete the scenario
The Arena of Annihilation
for a free
Maki's Mashing Mace
. You can also choose
Satay's Stabbing Sword
if you want to switch to
Titan's Grip
Fury, or Arms.
There also are
two other easy-to-get itemlevel 450 weapons that only require level 86, one has Dodge, but that can be reforged, and the other has no secondary stats, but bonus Strength and a proc. Both would be better than the Scimitar.
Post by
jure12
First of all, thanks for the answers.
Strength gives way more dps than agility, no matter how many dps is on the weapon.
Not a chance. The actual math of it says this: the difference in DPS is 281, which equals 3934 AP, which is 1967 strength for a warrior. That is twice as much as something like
Xifeng, Longblade of the Titanic Guardian
has. There is not a sword in game that can give me enough strength to compensate for 281 DPS difference.
I'm surprised the game let you roll need on an Agi weapon.
It allows me preciselly on the grounds of DPS. Weapon meant for casters, with intellect on it, has HALF the DPS on the weapon of the same ilvl without intellect on it (non-caster weapon) - thus, I am not allowed to need it, since it does nothing for me.
You will probably replace it with another weapon which has Strength soon enough, but he may not consider Strength weapons an option.
Same as saying: he will probably get another weapon which has Agility soon enough, whether he may or may not consider Strength weapons an option.
However, it would be at least polite to give the sword to the rogue if it's an upgrade for him as well, as he profits from the weapon more.
When people ask politely, I often do. He went foul mouth straight away. However, the main point is whether the weapon is an upgrade for me or not (as that rogue claimed, and Jeremybell too).
My argument is simple - DPS is by far the most important piece of data on a piece of weapon (not talking about casters' weapons here), that trumps stats on it (as showed by math above).
In hope I see some more arguments,
jure12
Post by
Adamsm
My argument is simple - DPS is by far the most important piece of data on a piece of weapon (not talking about casters' weapons here), that trumps stats on it (as showed by math above).Your argument is incorrect; stats are always more important then the straight up dps on a weapon, even as a fury warrior, which does depend more on the white hits.
Taking an agility weapon, you lose out on an important part of your dps: Your actual yellow damage, which is based on personal attack power, which as I'm sure you know, is based on Strength.
Post by
Nulgar
When people ask politely, I often do.I did not mean that he should have asked, but you.
Post by
Izichial
Since your previous weapons
also
had agility then yes, the new weapon was an upgrade. That doesn't mean it isn't inconsiderate taking it over someone who'd benefit fully from all stats on it.
In the stat weights I have on hand for my rogue agility is rated higher than mainhand dps point for point. When looking at offhand dps, agility is roughly five times as valuable. I don't play a warrior, but I imagine that their equivalent weighting of strength and weapon dps aren't too dissimilar.
Post by
jure12
First, let me say that I am aware that the most polite thing is to negate all of my loot interest, and tank (instead of dps) the instance solely for the fun and loot-benefit of others. But that was not actually the question, so let's see the remaining interesting argument, which does not seem true to me (correct my math, please).
My argument is simple - DPS is by far the most important piece of data on a piece of weapon (not talking about casters' weapons here), that trumps stats on it (as showed by math above).Your argument is incorrect; stats are always more important then the straight up dps on a weapon, even as a fury warrior, which does depend more on the white hits.
Taking an agility weapon, you lose out on an important part of your dps: Your actual yellow damage, which is based on personal attack power, which as I'm sure you know, is based on Strength.
All these abilities
Raging Blow
Furious Slash
Whirlwind
and even
Bloodthirst
(which didn't used to before)
depend on weapon damage, which is to say DPS (multiplied by weapon speed, to finish the thought). And that's the most of yellow damage I do? How does yellow damage
not
depend on DPS of a weapon?
Post by
Adamsm
Because your yellow damage comes from your attack power.
Post by
678294
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I stand corrected Fel.
Post by
Izichial
The actual math of it says this: the difference in DPS is 281, which equals 3934 AP, which is 1967 strength for a warrior. That is twice as much as something like
Xifeng, Longblade of the Titanic Guardian
has. There is not a sword in game that can give me enough strength to compensate for 281 DPS difference.
I got curious, so I went ahead and ran simcraft for fury warriors using the T14 standard profile that's included in the files (it won't give the same results as your actual character but it was the lowest geared profile of the default ones). The normalised (to strength) scale factors for a single target fight puts weapon damage at 2.39. To make up for a 281 dps difference you'd then need 2.39 * 281 = 671.59 strength.
It's still sort of irrelevant to the original question, but I figured I'd point it out.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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