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Are the HORDE Sexist ?
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Post by
Danq
Well I decided to start working on my alt , to open up my options when patch 5.4 hits..
Wandering around Brill I looked up and notice this huge statue of Sylvanas and wondered .. Why not she become leader of the horde? Why a Troll? I am honestly so burned out on trolls from the entire story lets petition for Sylvanas to lead the HORDE !
haha
Post by
Adamsm
Let's not and say we didn't.
Post by
Zuji
Yes, because the other races couldnt possibly object to having AN UNDEAD as warchief. No, must be her gender. Seriously, that was a really
dumb
'special' post...
Edit: To add something constructive: it's rather Blizzard's fault for not coming up with female leaders who are
neither
borderline psychotic (Sylvannas, Proudmore),
nor
unbearably whiny (that Elf in Darnassus)
nor
Dragons in disguise (Lady Prestor). I hope they develop Moira in the future without letting her go rogue as usual, it would be a welcome relief from the endless family bonding tale of the Wrynn clan.
Post by
517094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
It's kind of a false positive for this kind of thing.
Mike: "Bob, we have two candidates lined up for promotion.
Phil is currently heading a fairly large department, has proven to be able to work well with a diverse team, has traditionally worked closely with the previous people who have held the position, has proven to be even-tempered in his problem-solving and conflict resolution, and demonstrates patience and critical thinking.
Judy leads a smaller team, and she constantly wants to add to it by ruthlessly getting people fired at other companies and separating them from their families, and then offering them a position with her once they are desperate and have no place else to go. She has shown a propensity to disobey instructions, including those which are given with the intent to hold to at least marginal practices of business ethics. She only took the position with the company to hurt her former employer, and has routinely shown more interest in that than in helping the company as a whole. Oh, and she likes to infect people with the plague. A lot. In general, the members of other divisions don't trust her, and we'll probably lose some experienced personnel if she gets it"
Bob: "Lets promote Phil, then."
Mike: "Why? Are you sexist?"(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
Post by
Rankkor
It's kind of a false positive for this kind of thing.
Mike: "Bob, we have two candidates lined up for promotion.
Phil is currently heading a fairly large department, has proven to be able to work well with a diverse team, has traditionally worked closely with the previous people who have held the position, has proven to be even-tempered in his problem-solving and conflict resolution, and demonstrates patience and critical thinking.
Judy leads a smaller team, and she constantly wants to add to it by ruthlessly getting people fired at other companies and separating them from their families, and then offering them a position with her once they are desperate and have no place else to go. She has shown a propensity to disobey instructions, including those which are given with the intent to hold to at least marginal practices of business ethics. She only took the position with the company to hurt her former employer, and has routinely shown more interest in that than in helping the company as a whole. Oh, and she likes to infect people with the plague. A lot. In general, the members of other divisions don't trust her, and we'll probably lose some experienced personnel if she gets it"
Bob: "Lets promote Phil, then."
Mike: "Why? Are you sexist?"
There's so much win on this post.
Edit: To add something constructive: it's rather Blizzard's fault for not coming up with female leaders who are
neither
borderline psychotic (Sylvannas, Proudmore),
nor
unbearably whiny (that Elf in Darnassus)
nor
Dragons in disguise (Lady Prestor). I hope they develop Moira in the future without letting her go rogue as usual, it would be a welcome relief from the endless family bonding tale of the Wrynn clan.
This is the real root of the problem
Is not that the horde is sexist, its that blizzard is.
There is a very VERY large difference in ratio between male and female characters in this game. The overwhelming majority are male. And the few females in the game tend to follow a very specific pattern.
They're either type A: These ones have a really small contribution to the plot and are very minor characters, and disappear from the story as soon as their contribution to it is done and are never seen or heard from again. A few examples would be Lady Liandrin, Aponi Brightmane, Gwen Armstead, Lorna Crowley, Zen'tabra, Admiral Rogers, Amber, and a really long etc. In fact I have an interesting excercise: name off the top of your head 5 notorious and recurring female characters for each race. I bet its gonna be a little harder than it sounds. Whereas if I ask you to name 5 notorious and recurring male characters, this is absurdly easy.
Then there's Type B: These ones have a slightly larger contribution to the plot, but their only contribution is being there to serve as a foil to a male character, letting these girls make all the mistakes, so that the specific guy they're overshadowed with gets all the glory. Tyrande is probably the most blatant example. Ohh my god how they've treated her =(
She was this badass, assertive, aggressive, and authoritarian Sentinel General in warcraft 3, who freed Illidan from his jail despite the protests of her boyfriend, and generally did whatever it took to protect the forest. Cue wow, where she's more or less Malfurion's pet, her only role is to swoon and sigh at the sight of her man (Example: Well of Eternity, where Malfurion more or less shuts her up) or the 5.1 scenario were she's an incompetent Leeroy Jenkins, to showcase how much more of a badass varian is next to her. Aggra, the super-ultra-shallow love interest of Thrall, exists exclusively, and entirely, to give thrall a love interest, she really has absolutely no involvement with the plot whatsoever.
These types do get more attention than the Type A, but its negative attention, they're only there to highlight some guy. Jaina was this for a while. Her ENTIRE ROLE in Wrath of the Lich King was being Varian's personal Cheerleader. Despite how much more valid reasons she had to be a part of the assault in Icecrown Citadel, her only role in that raid is to cry. CRY. For Varian. ugh.
And then there's Type C: These ones are the women with the largest contribution to the plot, the ones you can namedrop at the tip of a hat, and yet they're so prominent because they're completely off their rockers. They're crazy, they're villainous, and they need to be put down, with extreme prejudice. A few examples are Sylvannas, Jaina, Warlord Zaela, Maiev Shadowsong, Leyara, and Magatha Grimtotem.
Can anyone name me at least 5, just 5 women that DON'T fit into any of these archetypes? To count, they must not be crazy psychos or villains, they must not be the shadow or foil of some man, and they must be recurring big name characters with important BIG contributions to the plot, rather than a small cameo only to never be seen again.
Ohh and they must be from the alliance/horde. Neutral Figures like Alextrazsa don't count.
Time will tell what does blizzard plan to do with moira, but after seeing how they treated Jaina, and now Warlord Zaela, I don't have many hopes up. There's a 99.99% chance that she's like, secretly plotting yo' to stage a coup against the other dwarves, and they're not gonna see it coming.
I mean look at warlord zaela T_T by far the best female character that blizzard ever made, she staged a coup against a tyrant who oppressively ruled her people with an iron fist, and yet now, for absolutely no reason at all, she sides with garrosh, who has become the spitting image of the very tyrant she overthrew first. Her dialog in Siege of Orgrimmar is a complete 180° of the idealistic and heroic woman she was when introduced in cataclysm. Just like Jaina's actions in the purge of dalaran are a complete 180° of how she used to be.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I agree that there are a lack of compelling female protagonists in Wow, especially considering how they're portrayed as having pretty equal representation numbers wise in the military. The ones who do show up end up becoming the bad guys, or a plot device, or play second fiddle to a love interest.
Post by
lonewolfe31705
It's kind of a false positive for this kind of thing.
Mike: "Bob, we have two candidates lined up for promotion.
Phil is currently heading a fairly large department, has proven to be able to work well with a diverse team, has traditionally worked closely with the previous people who have held the position, has proven to be even-tempered in his problem-solving and conflict resolution, and demonstrates patience and critical thinking.
Judy leads a smaller team, and she constantly wants to add to it by ruthlessly getting people fired at other companies and separating them from their families, and then offering them a position with her once they are desperate and have no place else to go. She has shown a propensity to disobey instructions, including those which are given with the intent to hold to at least marginal practices of business ethics. She only took the position with the company to hurt her former employer, and has routinely shown more interest in that than in helping the company as a whole. Oh, and she likes to infect people with the plague. A lot. In general, the members of other divisions don't trust her, and we'll probably lose some experienced personnel if she gets it"
Bob: "Lets promote Phil, then."
Mike: "Why? Are you sexist?"
And this is why Elhonna will always be my favorite mod ever in the history of time.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I do what I can.
Post by
Danq
Maybe its because the game is set in a fantasy old days where females did not have equal rights!
Post by
Danq
Do the Forsaken have to show ID to vote for the new warchief
HAHA
Post by
Adamsm
Maybe its because the game is set in a fantasy old days where females did not have equal rights!
Yeah....except for all of those female commanders on both sides....
Post by
Zuji
words
I love you in some totally heterosexual way I havent quite figured yet. Awesome post.
Ahem, to add something constructive: it's not that there aren't any strong and competent female leader figures in the game: there's
Joanna Blueheart
who is in just about everything the complete oppsite to that psycho
Sky Admiral Rogers
in command of the "most powerful ship of the fleet" (don't get me started on "Admiral Taylor" who seems to get promoted every time he either 'loses' his superior or his ship) Then there's
Shandris Feathermoon
who I
totally
want to march on Darnassus and kick Tyrande out of office for incompetence.
There are these leaders, it's just that they are very few and obscure.
Post by
Jkpman
Let's not and say we didn't.
Been a while since I saw a twisted long kiss goodnight quote :)
it's rather Blizzard's fault for not coming up with female leaders who are
neither
borderline psychotic (Sylvannas, Proudmore),
And this is the main reason she will never be leader of the horde unless some sort of military coup happens. The chick is batstuff insane. Great character, no leader.
Hey OP how come all the war chiefs have been orcs? Racism!
Couldn't possibly have a Jamaican..erm Troll in charge.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##ಠ_ಠ
Post by
asakawa
Every time I see this thread title I think...
Post by
Nulgar
When I first saw this thread, no replies yet, I thought "oh, this is gonna derail fast".
Then, Elhonna and Rankkor proved me wrong.
Then, asakawa came along.
Post by
Myrroddin
Has anyone seeing the loading "tip" that nobody has seen Alleria in years? I didn't play Warcraft 3 (yeah, I know) but she was awesome in Warcraft 2.
Okay, so Alleria is Alliance, which is a bit off topic, but I care not. Same with Turalyon. I doubt either will show up in patch 5.4 (could you see it, beating down Garrosh and those two show up?), but they are obviously still on Blizzard's radar.
Alleria the person/elf doesn't actually make an appearance in WoW, but references to her are
all over
the place, as is
Turalyon
.
Post by
morginar
I mean look at warlord zaela T_T by far the best female character that blizzard ever made, she staged a coup against a tyrant who oppressively ruled her people with an iron fist, and yet now, for absolutely no reason at all, she sides with garrosh, who has become the spitting image of the very tyrant she overthrew first. Her dialog in Siege of Orgrimmar is a complete 180° of the idealistic and heroic woman she was when introduced in cataclysm. Just like Jaina's actions in the purge of dalaran are a complete 180° of how she used to be.
Wasn't Zaela Garrys chearleader? I kinda hope she dies, in agony and torment. (Morginar The witch king of wowhead is evil. Muhahaha)
Hopefully Liadrin will get a good role when her time to shine has come. I kinda like the idea of her having Quel'Delar...
Has anyone seeing the loading "tip" that nobody has seen Alleria in years? I didn't play Warcraft 3 (yeah, I know) but she was awesome in Warcraft 2.
Okay, so Alleria is Alliance, which is a bit off topic, but I care not. Same with Turalyon. I doubt either will show up in patch 5.4 (could you see it, beating down Garrosh and those two show up?), but they are obviously still on Blizzard's radar.
Alleria the person/elf doesn't actually make an appearance in WoW, but references to her are
all over
the place, as is
Turalyon
.
Aleria will probably become a cheerleader for Tyralion. Kinda like Vereesa and Rogue-Samurai-with-flame-hair-that-must-not-be-named. Or she can break up and roll horde.
Kinda shame That Shandris isn't geting any screen time, or geting some uniqe model/armour like in wc3. (Her model back then was only shared by Sylvanas as living and dead and the Dark Rangers.)
Post by
Danq
The chick is batstuff insane. Great character, no leader.
As if no world leaders have never been insane.
THIS IS GREAT(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
skumbananer
Dont hate on Zaela too much. Garrosh saved her tribe from their insane leader, deathwings possé and the Alliance, and made them a part of the Horde.
Her whole people would be extinct except for the few surviving left in Outland (who where illidans corrupted lapdogs). She is going to stand by Garrosh, even if its wrong. She has to because orcs has a wierd sense of honor (Just as Nazgrim) and the Dragonmaw owes their very existence to Garrosh.
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