The WoW Leveling Experience - what we had, what we have now, and what will we end up with?

Post by 320750

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by JemiS

Even in Vanilla, the leveling in WoW was really, really fast compared to other MMOs (Everquest comes to mind).

For it's day, it was a pretty fast race to the cap, with lots to do once there. And it still is. In my mind, that hasn't really changed.

Post by lankybrit

I don't believe leveling was ever really about learning to play your class. That comes very quickly, and even quicker if you just spend a bit of time on EJ, or the class forums here or on the blizz forums.

I do agree that leveling is more trivial now, and that some more instanced quests like DK would be great, but don't really see it as something that's necessary.

Leveling now is just a bump to get over, to enable you to make some money, and level some professions, and the like, to get to max level.

I don't think it's a shell of what it was, just a bit easier. That's all.

Cheers.

Post by Eccentrica

I'm rather torn on the subject as I found pre-Cata levelling to be both grossly engaging and infinitely aggravating (and by pre-Cata I mean before the nerfs to the starting areas which made previously hostile mobs neutral till attacked).

I miss grand sweeping questlines. I miss having choices (non-linear questing). Heck, I even miss the possibility of messing up (see any thread on the subject of trying to complete Loremaster in Nagrand after having bypassed the Consortium lead in quest).

Having said that, levelling the nth alt is much much faster these days. I guess I just really wish that I could have my cake and eat it too, so to speak.

Post by 320750

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Post by lonewarrior

If I could change one thing about this game, it would be to remove toon levels, make all areas quest accessible and just have progression based on iLevel, since this has become the premise of the game these days.
From start to max level the game would be about acquiring gear. Throw in quest/dungeon perks that would boost your stats and now everything has relevance.
This would have a self leveling affect on the game. Players who are well geared and/or good players could go to advanced areas to quest or que for dungeons without being hindered by toon level quest restrictions.
Others would have to stay in areas longer to gear/stat better.
Example: You have a level 55/56 who you think can handle the Outlands, go right ahead, the quests will be there.

You have 6 or 7 max leveled toons and you have the professions/gold to gear up a new toon with the best gear then you can skip a huge portion of the world and go straight to endgame dungeon heroics/LFR
If you have just 1 or 2 maybe the best you can do is gear up new toon that would let you only skip a few zones.
Again a self leveling balance to the game. Long time players benefit from their longevity.
The economy/AH would now benefit because gear would now be a premium item at any level.
Makes players want to farm mats for crafting professionals and/or run dungeons for drops.

The game was a lot smaller backing in Van/TBC, you can't blame Blizz for trying to push players as quickly as possible into MoP.
With the population being top heavy these days, leveling really has a reduced roll for most of them.
Just my two cents.

Post by 584547

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Post by Gumchum

Simple.

Level up any time you want:

Level 1 = $1
Level 2 = $2
Level 3 = $3

And so forth.

You don't pay for expansions, your monthly subscription reduces in price until you reach level 90.

Once you reach 90, all your toons on your server can level at a quarter of the cost and when you have 11 level 90s on the same server you no longer pay for a subscription.

Post by Eccentrica

I think I'm safe in saying that would be an unmitigated disaster and the size of the player exodus would cause the firing of everyone from Morhaime to the guy that vacuums at night.

Post by Azrile

Not to be rude, but people need to realize they are not the center of the universe.

So you say, leveling now for you is much faster than it was the first time you played the game in vanilla? Wow, you think it has something to do with the fact that you understand the game a lot better now than you did back then. Heck, my latest alt spent 1 hour gaining 4 levels.... that is about as long as it took me to figure out how to get into undercity the first time playing.

For new players, going from 1-85 takes probably just as long as it took you and I to go from 1-60 our first time through.

I have a new player guild, let me tell you, new players are still out there floundering. Yeah, flightpaths and graveyards are more convienent, and not having to run back to town to train skills is nice.. but those guys are having a lot of the new player craziness that we had (although mankirks wife is no longer an issue).

I think we can´t compare leveling speeds now compared to then because we know the game, maybe I should take a poll of some of the people in my guild and see what their /played time is. I know it is pretty significant.

Post by Eccentrica

Not to be rude, but people need to realize they are not the center of the universe.

I rather thought this conversation has been civilized and concilliatory thus far.

Post by totemmunkey

For new players, leveling is instructive. You gain new abilities progressively and learn how to incorporate them into the mix and when the optimal time is to use them. And you encounter enemies and learn the typical dangers they present. It would be overwhelming to start out fresh with 30-40 spells and try to manage and prioritize them.

That's why the OP suggested something similar to the DK starting zone. Death Knight's don't start at 55 with 30-40 spells. You go through the quests and learn everything from how to use attack abilities, mounts, talents, vehicles, etc. So by level 58 when you are made to join the Horde/Alliance, you have a better grip on how to play not only the class but the game as well.

The OP suggests a similar experience for all classes should be made, so no matter if you are new to the game or just new to that class, everyone has a better understanding how to play from the game itself.

Old players don't need this training, but that doesn't mean leveling lacks value for old players. I enjoy leveling and experiencing the game's immensity again and again. IMO, it would be a huge mistake to abandon all of it for the sake of expediency.

We can get stuck in the notion that all players are jaded know-it-alls. But there really are new players learning this game right now. They should get a chance to go through an experience similar to what we all did when we started out.

I agree with a lot of this except that first sentence. The game is constantly changing and not all old players play every class. I'm a BC baby and I've never made a druid, warlock or hunter. Personally speaking, a similar experience to the DK starting zone for all classes would be welcomed not just for learning the class basics but for learning the class lore as well.

I really enjoyed the leveling experience my first time through as well, but WoW was my first MMO and I'd have to agree that it may be that as older players, the mystery of Azeroth is no longer that a mystery and leveling alts isn't going to produce the same awe and wonder that came from leveling my first toon. Although I'm certainly not a fan of the linear Cataclysm quest format that now plagues the leveling zones. /end reply

I think the OP's on to something. Since playing MoP, I've often wondered myself why the game doesn't use iLevel instead of character level for grouping (ie Battlegrounds, DF). It would give those without heirlooms a chance for balance, unfortunately however it may result in long queue times... or perhaps not since those without heirlooms might be set against lower level players that do have heirlooms. That way everyone's on near equal terms (except for higher level players having access to abilities lower level players may not have learned yet). Idk.

As someone who enjoys lore and questing for the sake of story, I feel removing character levels would give players like me (which I realize isn't 100% of the player base) a chance to play through older zones for the lore without feeling like its a waste of character progression time (ie not focusing on endgame content) and/or feeling like its too easy/cheating (one-shotting mobs).

Initially when I bought WoW, I thought this was exactly how MMO expansion packs were like. I thought once you hit endgame, you could purchase ANY expansion pack and continue your character's adventures based on what type of adventure you want to play. For instance, I hit level 60 and exhaust the vanilla experience... now do I want to go off on a dimension-hopping quest to battle the Burning Legion or do I want to explore the continent of Northrend and take on the Scourge? (WotLK wasn't out yet but you get my meaning, and I was aware of GW's expacs and thought they followed this thinking even though I never bought any of them).

Although I'm sure it would have some drawbacks, I think its a fantastic idea to make the content accessible to all players depending on what kind of story they are more interested in playing. I think it would be a step back in the direction of bringing players back out into the world and playing the game for fun, not grinding out character levels to endgame just to start playing however you want. Raiding would still be there for those enjoy it and want to work on gear progression, same with battlegrounds, dungeons, arenas, and scenarios.

Surely there could be incentives beyond lore for completing various quests and zones (mounts, pets, perhaps even JP and/or VP, similar to daily quest rewards now without being daily quests). Heck, even maybe bring back class quests within certain zones that reward you with new abilities (active and/or passive) or unlock talents or perks that aren't necessarily needed to play the game but only add to the overall enjoyment.

I rather thought this conversation has been civilized and concilliatory thus far.

Surprisingly I thought so too.

Edit: Just to add, I think giving players a chance at starting which storyline/zones they want to play first is a good thing and adds to character building. For example, lets say I roll a paladin. To keep with the paladin feel, my character would want to help the Argent Dawn/Crusade fight back the Scourge, so the Plaguelands would be the first ideal zone(s) for my character's story if I so choose. Maybe my paladin isn't concerned with the Scourge just yet and wants to serve the Horde and battle against Alliance forces, so Ashenvale or even the Barrens/Southern Barrens would be my first adventure. It puts the choice of adventure back in the player's hands without feeling they must do *this* first, then *that*.

Post by 320750

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Adamsm

but I feel like Blizzard could reduce the barrier to entry for new players by taking a look at this whole experience.They've been doing that with each expansion; right now leveling is a simple thing as it leads you from one zone to the next, never putting you in an area where the mobs are too powerful(unlike Vanilla).

As you level, you automatically learn new abilities, so you can test them as you go; that's what I did when the monk came out.

As you level and hit 'milestones', the game tells you what you can and can't do yet for instances.

As you level, the game tells you can pick up a mount at level 20, 40, 60, 68 and 70.

Really, the game helps people; there is even a full set of tutorials built into the game that are active from the moment you start playing. What more do you really want?

Post by 320750

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Wowpixel

TL-DR: I want to discuss the idea of a radically different leveling experience in WoW. The leveling experience in WoW is a shell of what it was, and the argument could be made that a set of instanced quests like the Death Knight starting quests (only probably more substantial) would be better for new players and better for WoW in general.

It's not like many enjoy leveling now, as things are.

With so many power leveling to end-game (I don't even play my alts to end-game, as they tag along with me during leveling), an epic chain to learn how to play a Druid for example will just get in the way. As the players will level through the zone, and go back to two boxing until level 90+. Folks are finished in the DK starter zone in but 2hrs of their life, with abilities that aren't best to use (leveling a Warlock, and half the spells he needs to use aren't available at level 20, and by the time they are available, he's nearly at level 90...even if he quests by himself without BoA gear).

Blizzard made it clear that WoW is about end-game. How you get there is up to you. I don't like it that way, but they make their production money selling boxes. If everyone is still trying to level their third toon to level 90+, players aren't going to be inclined to buy an expac at release. Maybe 3 - 6 months later.

We're getting to the point of two things: is it more important to sell boxes? Or that players can play their toons well by level 90+? Considering Activision-Blizzard is a corporation with investors, you can bet which of those two things wins.

Post by lankybrit

BTW, there's a nice explanation of what your class should do in the Spellbook. It tells you exactly what the key abilities are etc. That was added recently also.

Cheers.

Post by totemmunkey

BTW, there's a nice explanation of what your class should do in the Spellbook. It tells you exactly what the key abilities are etc. That was added recently also.

Cheers.

Actually that only appears in your spellbook once you reach a certain level. I noticed the tab on all my current toons when 5.0 was implemented. However, when I made *new* toons, the Core Abilities tab was nowhere to be found. Which means new players don't get that information.

I haven't reached a high enough level to discover when the tab appears, if it even appears at all for characters not existing when 5.0 was implemented.

The WoW Leveling Experience - what we had, what we have now, and what will we end up with?

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